Tony skinner
Hi and welcome to the podcast channel podcast my business and today we have James from https://www.origoeducation.com/ and I will spell that origo education .com they’re a major supplier of maths, tutoring and math services in Australia and the United States. Hi, James.
James
Hi Tony, how are you? 
James
I’m awesome. What about yourself?
James
Yes, very good coping in this unique situation.
Tony skinner
Well, yeah, it’s it’s as the kids say, cray cray. I call it the event. So I’m just gonna stick to that. It’s one of those things. And your background, you did a lot of printed mathematics books and services and things like that.
James
Yes.
Tony skinner
How do you go from that? To continue the business online.
James
Well, we were developing digital resources. We’ve been doing that for 10 years or so. So yeah, when we first started in our Actually, this coming week is our 25th anniversary. So we started 25 years ago, in my my garage of my house, and we did print for many years. And then we ventured into the digital world. We’re probably a little bit ahead of the time because we went in the digital world and the schools and teachers were initially ready for it. But in any case, we were well and truly ready for this situation. And we had to pivot very quickly using digital technology to deliver good content for Well, I was gonna say teachers, there was really a lot for parents as children were sent home to you know, finish out their school year in the US and here in Australia. We had to develop a program specifically for them.
Tony skinner
So what about the for the rest of the business? I mean, you would have had an office, like all of us and so forth. And then and then everyone has to work from home. Yeah. on developing new resources, Department of Education’s around Australia and around the states. How did you manage to cope with that?
James
Yeah, well, we saw because you have an office in the US as keeping track of all this, we will keeping track of what’s happening around COVID. So we saw the writing on the wall, we realized we had to get everyone out of the office sooner rather than later. So we moved before most people were moving. So we just wanted more time to set everyone up at home. Make sure they all had the cables and everything they need before they all sold out. And yeah, and then we were set up, it didn’t take too long as you know, some teething problems, but but then we had to get down to business of creating this, this new product that I mentioned. So yeah, some challenges they I mean, this meeting, like this virtually, it takes a lot of getting used to. But you know, we have been doing it to some extent anyway, because half of my team is based in the US. So I think with that we were pretty well prepared to hit the ground running.
Tony skinner
Excellent. Okay. So out of that, what do you think would be good lessons for others in business to pivot so quickly?
James
Yeah, I can think back. I can think back over 25 years of history two, and three or four major opportunities if you like. And if they come on, through, you know, forces out of control, like a brand new mathematics syllabus, for example, a new national curriculum first whenever in the US or the first one ever in Australia, and you just got to jump on that quickly. So turn that opportunity into into something really positive. I Highly recommended to look out for those opportunities they don’t come very often, and you got to be the first you gotta jump on that bandwagon and be the first to catch those early adopters and beat and be and build your brand the fastest basically. And that’s what we did with this with this new product that we built specifically for parents at home. It is called origo at home. I need to correct your pronunciation origo which is just Latin for the source.
Tony skinner
how did I pronounce it?
James
origgio or something? Right, you got Nike and Nikee Doesn’t matter how you say it. 
Tony skinner
Potatoe, Potato
James
Yeah, exactly.
Tony skinner
Yeah. Okay. So it’s interesting because you’re right about early adopters. I mean, certainly for me, I do the podcasts online. No need to do the face to face or anything like that. It’s been beneficial for me, but in these rapidly changing times, there are opportunities. So where do you see the market going across the board and more online and so forth? Or do you see things coming back to a little bit more towards the normal? Or do you see the new normal,
James
there’s gonna be, there’s going to be new normal and that that is more online are going to see that happening. We’ve had, you know, well and truly over a hundred thousand users on our at home product, which is free so it’s available right now pulling together a brand new product. With that in mind, we just realized that in the US school districts will need to buy products like this and to enable their students to learn from home. And fortunately for us, we can do it in a short time because a lot of our video content can be of this quality. You know, people are more willing to accept Social media quality video content, rather than highly polished studio produced video. So, because of that we can produce it quickly and get things for children and their carers or teachers very, very quickly. So yeah, so that’s how I expect the future to carry more digital content. Because it’s just so uncertain. I cannot see us getting out of this for quite some time.
Tony skinner
Well, yeah, and that’s the reality. It is going to take time and there is a new normal and digital. So what are some of the challenges I guess for parents as well, going from books, which sit in front of the children to have to collect and monitor them more with digital 
James
Probably do have to monitor them more. But at least with digital, I can put them in front of their computer. Whereas a book a young child, you know that they need to sit with the child You know, the computer that the software that the online widget or whatever is you produce can can communicate with the child as in talk to the child can not going to have discourse, but can can provide instructions. So there is benefits and disadvantages, of course. But yeah, the challenges I see for parents is really keeping their children engaged in learning. So it’s not so much here in Australia right now, because our children are back at school. You can go back two months ago, in April, early May when kids are still, you know, told stay home basically encouraged to stay home. I mean, the children just didn’t want to learn. They didn’t want to be in school. That’s right. So it’s really hard to engage. children in learning and make it essentially make it fun. Yeah, that’s a challenge. If you’re a teacher in a classroom of 25 or 30 students, you can be animated you can you know, share big stories, your story books you can make mathematics fun if you’re that way inclined. But you know, when you get home, first out, a lot of parents have a very bad experiences with mathematics when they grow up so that there’s an anxiety there that they experience, you know, oh, gosh, I gotta teach mathematics. You know, I hate math. I was never very good at math. You know, I didn’t like that. So, they themselves don’t necessarily want to do it. You know, particularly if their children, you know, in upper primary school or in secondary school, it’s downright frightening. So, yeah,
Tony skinner
it’s interesting. I discovered that as well. I wasn’t very good at maths at school. I do a lot of different things and also do stuff on the Google algorithm, which of course, is based on probability. Yeah. Which of course, is still maths. And where we actually taught probability in maths at school, no, but by and large maths can be fun. you’ll explore more And you’ll want to enjoy more spend more time with it.
James
That’s right. Absolutely. Yeah, we got a make it engaging..
Tony skinner
All right. So you started off as a teacher? Yes. And you then thought, Well, you know what, what inspired you to go from being a teacher to taking maths to the world?
James
Well, I was lucky. I was never very good at math. Okay, when I was in I went to primary school in 1970s. And then my middle school high school in the 80s. Mathematics was very procedural, you just had to memorize rules. Mathematics was the quiet subject of the day when they talk or collaborate. And I so I did not have positive experiences mathematics. When I got to university. It was in Brisbane College of advanced education. This is in the very late 1980s. I had two lecturers, husband wife, team, Dr. Calvin Irons and his wife, Rosemary Irons, and they open my eyes to another way to learn and therefore teach mathematics. teach it with understanding, if you understand area, you’re more likely to be able to generate a formula for calculating the area, you know that you have to get this dimension that dimension multiply, you know, even if you forgotten the, the formula, you know, if you truly understand things, you can generate the mathematics and make connections between big ideas and mathematics. So it was those two who really inspired me. I went to teach mathematics on promise. But of course, I taught for a few years and Calvin asked me to come back and to work with him at that stage, I should say for him at that stage, I see was only always encouraging me to do more study. So I came back and did a fourth year study because when I went through as a three year course of my fourth year, a bachelor, I would do it all in mathematics. And as during that fourth year, again, I developed a real interest. I wouldn’t say love is the love of mathematics. I’d have an interest. But I went Yeah, this is this week. Have to share these ideas with people. There’s not enough people getting these aha moments that I certainly got. And then we decided the two of us we would found this company, Origo education, which was then in 1995. So that’s sort of how it happened. Prior to that, he had been writing for a small entrepreneurial business out of Melbourne mimoza publications. And then I, when I worked, he invited me to work for him just as a researcher to help him on some writing. I write with him for 18 months on that project and that product called mathematics for many cultures that won the inaugural prize for excellence in educational publishing Australia. So we’ve runseveral since. But there that really gave whet my appetite for Hey, I liked it’s not just the writing aspect, but the publishing aspect. So yeah, as a one man band for many, many years until things took off. 
Tony skinner
Now that’s interesting, because that’s a good story for business. So Back then you saw the future. And now we’re just talking about the future after the event. So in relation to business, do you think you need to exercise the brain a lot about looking into the future in order to create new opportunities in business and look for new opportunities in business, especially in times of crisis?
James
Especially in times of crisis? Absolutely. But even when you’re not in times of crisis I think a good entrepreneur, a good founder, for that matter, good CEO. And im all three or have been all three needs to do that and they needed to dedicate quality thinking time. You know, to to do that exactly that I just stood down from the CEO role stood down a month ago, back as an executive chair. And one of the main reasons for doing that is I just, I just lack the time to think I, you know, as CEO i just just got too many As well as during my executive chair aisle taking on that role and getting into the details and managing people I just lacked time. I certainly wasn’t thinking at 30,000 feet, I was thinking, you know, I’ve down with the frogs rather than the birds. thats how I felt. So I, yeah, I need to get out because you need to do that. Tony, as you said, you just got to think more about the bigger picture. Where are we going to be in five years? Where’s the market? Give me five years, you know, 10 years? Absolutely.
Tony skinner
Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s the key lesson. For every business owner and every business is to get out there and see what’s new. Again, we’ve had this event. Don’t think of it as a crisis, think of it as an opportunity. Get out those seizes opportunities and look for those opportunities.
James
Absolutely. It is definitely a crisis on our economy, on our health. But for the business this is an opportunity, and it’s up to me and the others in the business to turn them into a positive There is a lot we, you know, we can do we hope, we pick the right things and really make a difference. We don’t want to be going backwards. Fortunately for us, we haven’t let anyone go. We haven’t had to, we don’t see a need to in the future. But you know, we’ve got things in motion. Now we’ve got to produce these new products for this new normal. Let’s hope we get it right.
Tony skinner
And so the thing is, well, of course, is that it forces you to evolve and it forces you to get things done. So yeah, absolutely. All right. Great. James, anything else you’d like to add?
James
Oh, you mentioned tips, tips in business tips. I, I do have a tip, which I very rarely hear and I wish I’d heard it. Going back, you know, 10 years ago, as I started a business in a sort of evolved organically way but no one ever told me start thinking about your exit strategy. You know, and I think any If you’re gonna write a business plan, I remember when I wrote that as a turning point for me, I devoted weeks thinking through that. But I never thought of an exit strategy. What is my exit strategy? And I really think you need to have an exit strategy at the same point you actually write your business plan. And I five years ago, diluted my share of the company selling to private equity firm. I still am majority share. But yeah, that was the path i took. But it was never a strategy. It’s sort of fell into my lap. So yeah, that’d be my tip. Just think bigger picture again. What’s the business going to look like in 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? time.
Tony skinner
Yeah. I think we’re all guilty of that. We don’t think big enough.
James
Yeah. It’s hard to think that big.
Tony skinner
All right. Great. Look. Thanks so much for your time, James. I really appreciate it.
James
Thanks Tony
